【No. 1397】Dobe and Biri
Yesterday, while playing Super Mario Party, I used the Japanese term dobe (ドベ), but its meaning didn't be conveyed.
According to the Internet, dobe is a dialect used in the area of western Japan, and instead biri (ビリ) is mainly used in the area of eastern Japan.
Both dobe and biri are slang terms that have the same meaning, "bottom" or "last place."
The etymologies about these terms have not been clarified, but some people believe that biri comes from shiri (尻), which means "hip."
In support of this theory, there is the fact that biri can imply "prostitute."
私は昨日マリオパーティをやっていて、「ドベ」という言葉を使いましたが、意味が伝わりませんでした。
調べてみると、「ドベ」は日本の西側で使われている方言らしく、東日本では代わりに「ビリ」が多く使われているようでした。
「ドベ」と「ビリ」はどちらも同じ意味を持つ俗語で、「最下位」であることを表します。
語源については不明ですが、「ビリ」は "hip" を意味する「尻」が変化したという説が有力です。
この裏付けとして、「ビリ」が「娼婦」を暗に意味するという事実もあります。
Corrections (1)
- Dobe and Biri
- This sentence is perfect! No correction needed!
- Dobe and Biri
- This sentence is perfect! No correction needed!
- Yesterday, while playing Super Mario Party, I used the Japanese term 'dobe' (ドベ), but its meaning didn't be conveyed.
- Yesterday(,) while playing Super Mario Party, I used the Japanese term 'dobe' (ドベ), but [its meaning wasn't conveyed / no one understood what I meant].
- According to the Internet, dobe is a dialect used in the area of western Japan, and instead 'biri' (ビリ) is mainly used in the area of eastern Japan.
-
According to the Internet, 'dobe' belongs to a dialect used in (the area of) western Japan, while 'biri' (ビリ) is mainly used in (the area of) eastern Japan.
"and instead" implies that something replaces something else ('in its stead"), but what you mean to do here is contrast two different things.
As I corrected it ", while..." works. These would also work and mean the same thing:
(1) ... Japan, but 'biri'...
(2) ... Japan. However, 'biri'...
(3) ... Japan. 'Biri', however, is mainly...
(4) ... Japan. 'Biri', on the other hand, is mainly...
Sentence (1) feels to me like it is a bit *too* counter to the first statement, like it's trying to contradict something that was said in the first part of the sentence, so it doesn't feel as nice.
Sentences (2), (3), (4), and my correction with "while" all feel pretty much the same to me. They are all ways to express that two ideas are related but not necessarily contradictory. In fact, I'd say they make them feel a bit complementary, like each part ('dobe' is used in western Japan *and* 'biri' is used in eastern Japan) helps to contribute to a bigger whole (to describe completely how these two words would be used throughout Japan). Hopefully that makes sense!
- Both dobe and biri are slang terms that have the same meaning, "bottom" or "last place."
-
Both 'dobe' and 'biri' are slang terms that have the same meaning: "bottom" or "last place."
I'd probably never use "bottom" to mean "last place", but if you just mean that the terms can mean "bottom" in a different context, then it's no problem.
However, "last place" can be abbreviated to just "last":
"Aw man, I'm in last place!" <-> "Aw man, I'm in last!"
- The etymologies about these terms have not been clarified, but some people believe that biri comes from 'shiri' (尻), which means "hip."
-
The etymologies of these (two) terms have not / haven't been clarified / verified, but some people believe that 'biri' comes from 'shiri' (尻), which means "hip."
"clarify" -> to explain something more clearly.
"verify" -> shown to be true/irrefutable
- In support of this theory, there is the fact that biri can imply "prostitute."
-
In support of this theory(, there) is the fact that 'biri' can imply / mean "prostitute."
This is fine. with ", there" it sounds pretty awkward, but without it's pretty good. Another option:
(1) That fact that 'biri' [can mean / can be interpreted as] 'prostitute' could possibly support this theory.
(: Let me know if you have any questions.
Thank you so much for the corrections! :)
> I'd probably never use "bottom" to mean "last place", but if you just mean that the terms can mean "bottom" in a different context, then it's no problem.
I used "bottom" as the similar sense of "last place" (e.g., "rank at the bottom" or "be placed in the bottom"). I think that it is also similar to "worst ranking," but it my thought wrong?
I'd say "place" and "rank" are different. You can't use "rank" to describe a position in a race, for example, only "place".
Ranks are usually a way to separate people based on their merit in some way (which admittedly is what "places" in a race are doing too, but "rank" just doesn't work there), and sometimes this includes placing people into groups of rank rather than giving them individual ranks.
The most common example would be ranks in the military: lieutenant, captain, corporal, general, and so on; these are "ranks" in the sense that they place people relative to one another based on their merit, but there's more than person per rank.
You could never use "worst ranking" or "rank at the bottom" to describe someone's place in a race. "be placed in the bottom" would be fine if a bit unnatural, but it would probably just mean you're in one of the last few places (if there are 16 racers, 13th-16th maybe) rather than absolute last.
---
"I'm (in) last place."
"I'm (in) last."
"I'm dead last."
These are really the only ways that I can think of that I would say it. There may be others, but I can't think of any.
---
I just thought of something regarding rank. Rank is usually a more long-term idea. For example, imagine you were taking place in a tournament with many individual races in it, and each race gives you a certain number of points for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.. After each race, each player would have a rank based on these points:
(1) Me -- 40 points
(2) You -- 30 points
(3) John -- 25 points
(4) Ashley -- 22 points
I think because the points are involved, it makes more sense to say "I'm ranked first", but "I'm in first place" works just as well.
Generally speaking, "ranking" is a more long-term phenomena (sometimes based on a point system), whereas "placing" can be used for both long-term things and short-term things (like position in a race).
Thank you so much for the kind explanations!
I understand well. :)